Andrew Hyde: GeniusRocket: Toxic Environments and Startups
Brett Borders
· 3 months ago
Designers are devalued. Writers are devalued ($5 for a blog post). Are highly-technical coders and systems engineers the only people who deserve to make a living?
Lisa Williams
· 3 months ago
You were one of the first people to tell me about spec work, Andrew, and I have to say, I was a little shocked. It just never occurred to me to ask someone to work for free.
ryanwanger
· 3 months ago
Andrew, where do you put companies like Threadless on the spec work spectrum?
andrewhyde
· 3 months ago
They have created a sustainable environment and are not spec work (they would be spec if they required things about the designs).
Similar but done right, everyone wins.
beaubrewer
· 3 months ago
Hey Andrew,
Interesting post--I always liked GeniusRocket and thought they had the ability to grow into the eLance or TopCoder of the creative space and really work for SMBs, but I didn't realize that they were using a straight contest model, which I agree does not usually work out well for the suppliers.
I'm curious if you're OK with a model like Zadby's (and please don't let the fact that we were funded by another incubator change your opinion). We do use crowdsourced video production talent, but we pay on a per-view basis so there isn't a binary or arbitrary contests-model payout. This payout structure attracts video producers with established followings (since they can pretty easily calculate how much money they are likely to make working with us). Perhaps most importantly, we only make money when our suppliers make money and we always give a transparent majority of the budget to our suppliers.
Is this the sort of crowdsourcing you can get behind?
Thanks for any feedback, Beau
andrewhyde
· 3 months ago
hmmmmm... grey area there, but that is ok. I can't quite seem to understand the whole model.
Is it sustainable? If everyone did it, would it still work?
We love startups btw, no matter what program / who funded you. The more strong and sustainable ones, the better.
beaubrewer
· 3 months ago
Andrew,
Whole model is this:
Zadby sells online video audience to advertisers--for example 1M views in 18-34 demo. When advertisers buy the audience, they give us a pretty typical ad brief on how the brand should be integrated. Financial opportunity (rate per view) is included in the brief.
We have a cattlecall to our registered video producers for proposals. Those who hit 18-34s and like the financial terms and have a great way to integrate the product into their next video send us a proposal.
Advertiser approves proposals for creation and we facilitate payment of the agreed upon rate per view of the finished video to producers.
Does that make sense? Lots of small details, but that's the basic model.
I'm glad to hear that you are funding agnostic. We'd like to think that we're strong and sustainable--we've done 4 quarters of revenue growth in this economy and worked with a half dozen Fortune 500s to date not to mention some of the best online video producers on the net, so I hope we're scratching an itch for both sides of our marketplace.
audreyr
· 3 months ago
I've worked as a freelance designer before. I'd never go back because of all the lowball offers from potential clients using spec contest prize costs as a bargaining tactic. Happened all the time.
Lance Fisher
· 2 months ago
You've made some good points in this article, and I agree with a lot of it. However, I don't think this is an either/or choice. In other words, people who use contest sites to get a logo for a couple hundred bucks, probably would not have hired a designer in the first place. These sites fill a different niche in the market. The designs that come out of them will never be as good as designs from good designers that can spend more time on a project.
Asking the question, "if everybody did this this would it still work" is not good enough to gauge sustainability. For example, if everybody were plumbers would society still work? No, but plumbers fill a certain need.
There is a point to be made that contest sites create more interest in custom design work. I'd like to hear from people who participate in these contests. They may have a different view on the subject. It could be a starting point in their career, or a relationship with a client who may want commissioned work in the future.
There is a need for both contest-type "spec" work, and commissioned work, and I think there is room for both.
andrewhyde
· 2 months ago
I think there is room for $300 logos, but not even an inch for spec.
All Comments
Similar but done right, everyone wins.
Interesting post--I always liked GeniusRocket and thought they had the ability to grow into the eLance or TopCoder of the creative space and really work for SMBs, but I didn't realize that they were using a straight contest model, which I agree does not usually work out well for the suppliers.
I'm curious if you're OK with a model like Zadby's (and please don't let the fact that we were funded by another incubator change your opinion). We do use crowdsourced video production talent, but we pay on a per-view basis so there isn't a binary or arbitrary contests-model payout. This payout structure attracts video producers with established followings (since they can pretty easily calculate how much money they are likely to make working with us). Perhaps most importantly, we only make money when our suppliers make money and we always give a transparent majority of the budget to our suppliers.
Is this the sort of crowdsourcing you can get behind?
Thanks for any feedback,
Beau
Is it sustainable? If everyone did it, would it still work?
We love startups btw, no matter what program / who funded you. The more strong and sustainable ones, the better.
Whole model is this:
Zadby sells online video audience to advertisers--for example 1M views in 18-34 demo. When advertisers buy the audience, they give us a pretty typical ad brief on how the brand should be integrated. Financial opportunity (rate per view) is included in the brief.
We have a cattlecall to our registered video producers for proposals. Those who hit 18-34s and like the financial terms and have a great way to integrate the product into their next video send us a proposal.
Advertiser approves proposals for creation and we facilitate payment of the agreed upon rate per view of the finished video to producers.
Does that make sense? Lots of small details, but that's the basic model.
I'm glad to hear that you are funding agnostic. We'd like to think that we're strong and sustainable--we've done 4 quarters of revenue growth in this economy and worked with a half dozen Fortune 500s to date not to mention some of the best online video producers on the net, so I hope we're scratching an itch for both sides of our marketplace.
Asking the question, "if everybody did this this would it still work" is not good enough to gauge sustainability. For example, if everybody were plumbers would society still work? No, but plumbers fill a certain need.
There is a point to be made that contest sites create more interest in custom design work. I'd like to hear from people who participate in these contests. They may have a different view on the subject. It could be a starting point in their career, or a relationship with a client who may want commissioned work in the future.
There is a need for both contest-type "spec" work, and commissioned work, and I think there is room for both.